Tuesday, October 24, 2006

Ten Generations and the Problem of Chronology

When did the Mabul (Deluge) occur? According to a simple reading of the genealogies recorded in Parashot Beresheet and Noah, respectively, the Mabul took place in the Hebrew year 1556 (i.e., 2204 BCE). An individual who is unfamiliar with the basics of history, Ancient Near East literature and geology will be unphased by this conclusion. For millenia, this was the conventional date assigned to the Flood, and for good reason - there was no evidence to suggest otherwise.

The findings of multiple branches of modern scholarship, however, have called this assumption into question on several grounds. From a geological perspective, for example, it seems certain that any cataclysmic flood that may have occurred in Mesopotamia would have taken place thousands of years earlier than the Torah indicates. Similarly, literature from other ancient cultures describes an event strikingly similar to the story of Noah, but seems to date it much earlier in history. This creates a problem for us: How can we accept the traditional dating of the Deluge when it appears to be contradicted by empirical evidence?

I would like to offer an answer to this problem that I believe to be correct, although I have not seen it mentioned in any contemporary Jewish articles on the subject. (A similar approach is alluded to in part by Kenneth Kitchen in The Reliability of the Old Testament).

Notice that the number of generations between Noah and Abraham is exactly ten. Similarly, the number of generations between Adam and Noah is ten. Finally, consider that the number of statements by which Hashem created the world is also ten. Coincidence? I think not.

It is quite reasonable to argue that the genealogies of Genesis and Noah are not exhaustive. They are summaries of the key "players" in the chain of generations, but do not make mention of every link in that chain. The number ten is chosen for its symbolic significance - it is reminiscent of the Creation of the World.

The emergence of Noah is, in a sense, the beginning of a new stage of "creation" after Adam. Thus, it is described as occurring after 10 generations. Similarly, the emergence of Abraham signifies the start of a new era of human history. It makes perfect sense that it should be characterized as the culmination of another 10 generations of human development.

Simply put, a list of ten generations can be understood as a symbolic summary of a genealogy that was in fact much longer. The summary is meant to convey an idea rather than transmit a comprehensive record of historical information.

There is further corroboration for this point from the Book of Ruth, which traces ten generations from Peretz, the son of Judah, down to King David. Many commentators point out that this genealogy stretches our credulity a bit, and that more than ten generations should have elapsed between the lifetimes of these two Biblical figures. Our solution resolves this problem beautifully as well. The ten generations described at the end of the Book of Ruth are not meant to provide an exhaustive list of David's ancestors. On the contrary, their purpose is to teach us that, with the birth of David, the evolution of Jewish leadership that began with Judah has reached a new plateau. A new chapter of Jewish history has been opened and, in what appears to be proper Biblical idiom, this is described as the culmination of a "ten step" process.

This approach allows a degree of flexibility in the interpretation of Biblical genealogy that renders many historical challenges to the Bible obsolete. We can no longer claim with certainty to know the years in which Adam was created or the Deluge occurred. However, we are thereby liberated from the need to "reconcile" the Biblical data with the conclusions of modern science.

This principle of interpreting genealogies of "ten" also explains a Mishnah in Pirke Avot:


"There were ten generations between Adam and Noah, to show God's patience in judgment; for all of those generations were angering Him, yet He waited before bringing the Flood upon them. There were ten generations between Noah and Abraham, to show God's patience in judgment, for all of those generations were angering Him until Abraham our forefather came and received the reward for all of them."


The Mishnah implies that the Torah's purpose in providing genealogies is not historical at all. If the Torah were an historical document, the Rabbis would not have commented on the "significance" of the number of generations between Adam, Noah and Abraham. This detail would have been viewed as an empirical fact like any other.

I believe that the Mishnah means to emphasize that the Torah's motive for presenting genealogies is not historical but philosophical. The Torah shows us that Hashem relates to us mercifully and tolerates our painstakingly slow spiritual progress. He allows us to advance at our own pace, even when He has every reason to expect much more of us.

Adam, Noah and Abraham each represent a distinct stage in the gradual development of mankind's relationship with God. The Torah teaches us that each of these transitions was a major achievement that was a long time in the making. This meant lengthy "Dark Ages" of primitivism, corruption and even paganism in the interim. Nevertheless, Hashem did not intervene until great human beings arose (i.e., Noah and Abraham, respectively) who were prepared to carry civilization along to the next level of enlightenment and growth.

These ideas are brought out by the genealogical record that separates these figures from one another by equal intervals of ten generations.

All in all, the interpretation of genealogies we have suggested underscores the fact that the Torah is a source of philosophical and ethical guidance, not a history book.

After writing this post, I found an interesting argument for this way of looking at Biblical genealogies here.

98 comments:

Anonymous said...

I agree with you totally. In the latest hakirah issue there is an article titled Y2K problem where Prof. Epstein, willamovsky and Dickman explain the 164 years missing from the second temple period. They show how dates were manipulated (clues admitting that in texts) to fit a theological understanding. It also shows that the year we count nowadays is at least 164 years short so that we are quite close to the year 6000.

Rambam in MN , taken to task by Ramban, also argues that the long lived gentlmen were unique and were more an era than just people.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

The Ralbag agrees with the Rambam in MN, and offers an intriguing explanation for why these individuals were blessed with such long lifespans.

He maintains that this was necessary so that the basic technological arts needed for civilization to progress could be developed.

The trial-and-error process through which these vital crafts came to be would have been very drawn out and ardous. Human beings in prehistory knew basically NOTHING about the world they lived in. They would have been unaware of things we take completely for granted, such as the whole concept of hunting/cooking food,weaving clothing, constructing homes, maintaining proper diet (at least through avoiding poisonous berries and the like), and farming.

According to Ralbag, the people with long lives were the "Thomas Edisons" or "Eli Whitneys" of their day who contributed to the discovery and refinement of agricultural methods, the manufacture of clothing, etc., etc.

J said...

very interesting. however, why would the Torah have included those years (how long each one lived), if it wasn't meant to be taken literaly?

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

I am not suggesting that the lengths of individual lifespans mentioned in the Torah are not literal. What I am arguing is that there are most likely many "missing links" in the genealogies that do not appear in the list althogether, and make the actual amount of time between Adam and Noah, or between Noah and Abraham, much longer than it would seem.

micha said...

R' Maroof,

I deleted your two comments on Aspaqlaria, and replaced them with a soon-to-appear link in my sidebar.

You might want to "permanently delete" this comment as well.

-mi

J said...

But didn't each one 'begat' the next one on the list, which allows for Rashi in Avoda Zara to calculate the percise date of Avrohom's birth (coincidentaly to the year 1948 from Creation)? Something has to give here... YOu can't have missing links in a complete chain.

Baruch Horowitz said...

Rabbi Maroof,

I appreciate the difficulty involved in trying to reconcile the Torah's account with secular sources, and your outlining an approach for people trying to understand Torah in light of modern scholarship.

However, I am very uncomfortable in saying that chazal's mesorah was incorrect on a historical or any other matter.

While I do accept as a possibility the opinion of the Rambam and his son R. Avroham regarding science issues, as well as the possibility that Maaseh Bereshis being Sod, may be non-literal even in the simple meaning, I believe that saying chazal's mesorah was incorrect is a step further.

From the perspective of the pshat of the meaning of the pesukim, some might say that this is a case of "the sense or the intellect contradicts the simple meaning", as in Emuna V'deos , as far as not interpreting the text literally. I imagine that those objecting from a theological standpoint, would say that R. Saadiah would not have considered modern scholarship automatically as "the sense or the intellect contradicts the simple meaning", especially since there is also a Mesorah from chazal.

David,

Can you summarize the approach of the Chakirah article? What was the purpose of manipulating the dates? Are the authors saying that chazal wanted to conceal the dates of Moshiach as was the(original) suggested approach of R. Schwab? How is it different from what R. Schwab suggested?

Regarding mareh mekomos: I have not seen the Ramban that quotes the Moreh Nevuchim-- I assume it was at the end of last week's parsha, and also that the Ralbag Rabbi Maroof mentions is in Milchamos Hashem.

Gil Student said...

I second J's question. The Torah is quite explicit that each person in the link is the father of the next person.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

Baruch and J,

the Haza"l make many assertions about history in midrash and aggadata, and sometimes they conflict with one another. The purpose of Haza"l in discussing history is always theological.

If we interpret the historical statements of Haza"l as empirical, then we must assume that, whenever two rabbis disagree about historical details, one of them simply has it wrong.

On the other hand, if we look at their disagreements as philosophical attempts to understand the past, rather than competing traditions of "how it really happened", then the existence of debate and disagreement is much more understandable.

A good proof for applying this to Tanach is the discrepancies between Divre Hayamim and the genealogical detail presented elsewhere.

What I am saying, in essence, is that I don't know of any authoritative tradition regarding historical facts.

The authority of the Rabbinical mesorah is restricted to the areas of mitsvot and Torah philosophy. Their understanding of history is an application of Torah principles, not a Torah principle itself.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

Rav Gil,

I'm glad you chimed in, I had wanted to solicit your thoughts on this very topic.

I am not convinced that the term "vayoled et X" necessarily means a direct father-son relationship. It could signify an ancestor-descendant relationship; it is not always used literally in Tanach, and this is a circumstance in which I think a non-literal reading is justified.

The article that I linked to at the end of the post elaborates on this point.

Bob Miller said...

Rabbi Marouf said, "The authority of the Rabbinical mesorah is restricted to the areas of mitsvot and Torah philosophy. Their understanding of history is an application of Torah principles, not a Torah principle itself."

Which sources among Rishonim or Acharonim clearly support the above view?

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

I think this is a corrolary of the general principle regarding Hazal's knowledge of science as presented by Rambam, R' Avraham ben HaRambam, Ramban and Rashba, among others.

Baruch Horowitz said...

"The purpose of Haza"l in discussing history is always theological."

"The authority of the Rabbinical mesorah is restricted to the areas of mitsvot and Torah philosophy. Their understanding of history is an application of Torah principles, not a Torah principle itself."

I admit that I am not an expert in the areas of the interface/contradiction between secular and chazal's view of history. I assume that Dr. Chaim S. Heifetz's work would be considered revisionism by mainstream secular scholars.
However from a Torah/theological view, I find Brad Aharonson's argument persuasive:

" When it comes right down to it, if we cannot believe Chazal on matters of historical fact, how can we believe them about anything? More importantly, how can we believe that there exists an unbroken chain of tradition from the time of Moses until the present, when Mr. First tells us we must accept a picture of history which snaps that chain between Baruch ben Neriah (the disciple of Jeremiah) and Ezra?"

http://www.starways.net/lisa/essays/heifetzletters.html

Aharonsohn makes two arguments. Focusing on the second one ,above, I assume that Modern Orthodox, Centrists and Charedim not only accept the Rambam's ikkarim(let's leave aside "The Limits of Orthodox Theology"), but also accept the Rambam's hakdamah, and other rishonim, which contains a listing of the Mesorah in each generation.

While there are differences regarding the exact nature of what is contained in the transmission of Torah S'bal peh, on some basic level, one would include, as the Rambam does, such basic interpretations that were part of Jewish communal life such as, "ayin tachas ayin", and what an esrog and tefilin were, as well as the hermeutical principles. See also Rambam(Mamrim 1:3) that "divrei kabbalh ein bahem machalokes l'olam".

This would mean that we would need to affirm the historicity and empirical reality of such transmission in the days of Tanach. However, the majority of secular scholars would not recognize this.

Modern Orthodox academics also recognize a limit. Dr. Moshe J. Bernstein, in Torah Umaddah Journal("The Orthodox Jewish Scholar and Jewish Scholarship: Duties and Dilemmas, Volume 3, 1991-1992), while certainly not agreeing with me in all areas of my hashkafa, writes:

"On the other hand, we have axioms more precious to us than those of scholarship." And... "The Orthodox graduate student or young scholar.... must be prepared... to conclude zarikh iyun gadol the equivalent and to step back spiritually whole." In his last paragraph he refers to the Yiddish Proverb of "quesstions are rarely fatal"(fuhn a kashe starbt mer nisht).

I did not quote in full because of the time. I realize that the very paragraphs I quote disagree with some of my hashkafa. I am merely pointing to a dividing line MO has; I use this for illustrative purposes, and not to generalize as a slippery-slope fallacy.

I understand that goals and purpose of trying to minimize the conflict with secular sources, but we certainly need to affirm chazal's integrity regarding their transmission from generation, even if this is not always apparent from a simple reading of tanach(besides of course pesukim which indeed indicate a tradition).

Rav Shhwab struggled with these issue regarding Age of the Universe and the Persian era. Regarding the latter, his theory which is not universally accepted, still allowed for a mesorah of transmission of torah that identified historic figures and also avoided saying that chazal erred on historical matters.

I do not claim to have resolved difficulties, I am merely stated what I see as the "limits of orthodox theology", and that I do not want to, in the words of R. Y Adlerstein in the link below, "[create] a frightful schizophrenia in our relationship with the Talmudic rabbis". Saying Chazal erred on history would do just that, in my opinion.

http://www.innernet.org.il/article.php?aid=236

Even if one will say that Modern Orthodoxy allows for chazal's errors in interpreting pesukim or history(I don’t think rishonim allow this--correct me if I'm wrong, the Rambam on reinterpreting Bershis in light of Platonic theory of eternity is because it is "sod"), I assume that Modern Orthodox do not disagree with the Rambam on the historical reality of a chain of Biblical and Tannaic figures.

Note of course that I am arguing in the spirit of a constructive exchange of ideas.

Good Shabbos to all.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

Baruch, I appreciate your feedback and I will certainly give this further consideration over Shabbat. In the meantime, let me affirm that I believe in the chain of transmission of Torah Shebal Peh 100%.

The question is - about what subjects are the rabbis absolute authorities, and in what cases did the rabbis theorize, speculate or draw conclusions based on the facts available to them in their time?

Obviously, the explanations of the mitsvot are from Sinai. So are the fundamental elements of Jewish philosophy, the Yesode Hadat. Believe me, I am not a proponent of the "Limits of Orthodox Theology" either.

But we can see, especially from Rishonim, that the explanations of the Written Torah that Hazal offered were not considered sacrosanct unless they had implications for mitsvot or yesodot.

Otherwise, we would not find Ramban, Rambam, and even Rashi disagreeing with Onkelos or with Midrashim.

Neither would we find contradictory Midrashim to begin with, since historical reality can only have been one way.

Take this week's Parasha - Are the months of the Flood calculated from Tishre or Nissan? The Rabbis disagree about this historical issue, and only one of the posibilities can be correct.

Or take next week's Parasha: Did Avraham leave from Haran or Ur Kasdim?

As you said, there is much more to discuss here, and I look forward to a further exchange of ideas next week.

Shabbat Shalom!

david guttmann said...

Baruch, I had planned to write a summary of the Y2K article on my blog but never got around to it.

Basically it argues that the chronology of Chazal wanted to fit the date of Rebbi's publication of the Mishna in the Alpayim Torah. To allow for that R.Yossi took out 164 years. Later when it came to the closing of the Gemara by rav Ashi the missing years were put back discreetly. It also shows that the Rabbis were trying to deal with Alpayim Yemot Hamashiach too. The beauty of the article is that it explains some very confusing gemarot very well. Though a little long it is a worthwhile read.

I wite this bekitzur from memory so allow for some innaccuracies.

shavua Tov.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

Let me clarify by saying that my objective here is to reconcile the Tanach's record of the Flood with our current knowledge re:the occurrence of floods of this magnitude in Mesopotamia.

I believe that the approach I've advocated in my post is a healthy, reasonable way to affect harmonization between the sources.

This theory neatly avoids the other two possible alternatives:

1 - Waiting for future scientific discoveries that may fit better with a literal rendition of the Mabul story

OR

2 - Interpret the Mabul as an allegory.


Incidentally, this method also makes the problem of the age of the human race more manageable. We need not say that the first man lived only 5766 years ago.

I don't see any difference between the approach I am taking to the genealogies and any other reinterpretation of the Torah in light of current secular knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Rabbbi Maroof, I agree with you. I only confirmed that the dating that we use is subjective and not objective. It is a halachik construct rather than reality. Thus any interprertation need not worry about chronology.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

David,

My comments were mainly addressed to Baruch. I felt that we were essentially on the same page regarding this issue.

As far as I understand, the Persian Era problem revolves around Seder Olam rather than Tanach or even Talmud. This would make the need for reconciliation appear less pressing.

Please fill me in if I am wrong; I have not studied the Persian issue too closely (a little embarrassing, given my own ethnic background).

Baruch Horowitz said...

These articles have some of the backround for the Persian era issue, from the traditional point of view(I am aware of a critique that has been published regarding Heifetz's theory).

http://www.starways.net/lisa/essays/heifetzfix.html

http://www.starways.net/lisa/essays/heifetzletters.html

http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/17269/Is_The_Real_Jewish_Year_5765_%2D_Or_5931%3F.html

Rabbi Shimon Schwab in "Comparative Jewish Chronology" writes(he seriously questions his previously published thesis):

http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol11/v11n030.shtml#06

"It is because of all these gnawing doubts that I have decided to put
a big question mark after the words "Jewish Chronology." Let somebody
with greater knowledge come and pick up the threads where I left off. Our
traditional, universally accepted Jewish way of counting the years from
Creation is sacred territory which only fools do not fear to tread upon.

This may be a disappointment to some, but on the other hand I muster the
courage to belong to those who rather wish to be honest to themselves than
to be "right". I would rather leave a good question open than risk giving
a wrong answer. And I follow the teachings of Rav Shimon (Pesachim 52b)
who said "Just as I was awarded for the research, so shall I be awarded
for the retraction". The historic material which I have assembled may
still be somehow useful, even for those who will doubt whether there can
ever be a Jewish chronology which would satisfy the non believer in the
wisdom of our Sages. So I fall back into the ranks of all shlomei emunei
Yisroel. And to me l'berias olam means what it meant to our fathers. It
is as simple as that. And while we may keep on searching for the answers,
we pray that Hashem may enlighten our eyes. "And G-d should enlighten
the eyes of all those who wait for the coming redemption quickly in our
days amen"

Baruch Horowitz said...

Rabbi Maroof,

Thank you for your response. I did not mean to imply, cv's, that your suggested explanation contradicted the overall essential principle of transmission of Torah s'hbal Peh. However, the question of accepting chazal's history may, for many people, bring up questions regarding the latter as well, as the quotation from Mr. Aaronson suggests. That is why I mentioned it.

I would distinguish between "R. Avroham B. Avroham" regarding chazal's scientific knowledge, and history:

(1) We have record of these rishonim stating this fact only regarding science.

(2) According to these Rishonim, science is indeed an application of Torah; Chazal might have used in some cases knowledge of their times. However, history regarding pesukim would be Torah itself.

See Rav Dessler's explanation regarding the possibility of chazal using current scientific knowledge to explain an halacha for which they had a mesorah for(eg., lice). Ramchal in Mamar al Hagados, while possibly disagreeing with the aforementioned Rishonim, writes that Chazal used parables("levush"), and concealed certain Torah principles according to the scientific knowledge of their day.

Thus, one might suggest as a possibility according to the Rambam and his son R. Avroham, that when Rav spent 18 months living with shepherd in order to be able to recognize what a permanent blemish was (Sanhedrin 5b), he was combining, or "synthesizing" his Divine Torah knowledge about the laws of blemishes with applications of what is "permanent" according to current science.

The "Divine Knowledge" approach would perhaps understand this gemera differently, that Rav was using ruach hakodesh to understand the physical facts of what is permanent. Either way, the Halacha remains, because it is an application of the Divine Torah process(I am only suggesting how R Avroham ben Harambam would understand the gemera--perhaps there are other opinions).

If chazal would make a statement, say, regarding the history of Africa, I might say that it is merely for theological purposes, and it has an inner depth and reality, in the derech of the Maharal. But that is different, in my opinion, from statements regarding pesukim that are indeed understood as historical statements according to Rishonim, if I understand correctly.

I have always preferred an intellectually honest and rigorous approach to these type of issues. However, I am prepared to remain with a difficulty, rather than go down a particular path of thought that I find problematic from a theological point of view. I concede that I have no background in the branches of scholarship you cite, and I understand that people who have studied these areas indeed wrestle with trying to reconcile Torah and secular sources.

As I said previously, I am exchanging ideas in a constructive way. While, I guess my initial comments here are somewhat rhetorical in nature, I have liked other parts of this blog. However, between writings on my own group blog(Mishmar), and the other one's which I have been regularly participating in for some time, I have not been able to participate here as of yet.

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

Baruch, I have enjoyed your thoughtful comments and I look forward to your participation in this blog in the future! Feel free to comment on other posts when you have the time.

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Maroof I wrote a comment this morning but it got gobbled up by blogger.

I was trying to make the point that to chazal chronology was something they used. R Yossi in seder olam manipulated 164 years for ideological reasons to legitimize the redaction of the Mishna.He probably learned that from past generations where probably the Beit Din of Ezra manipulated chronology in Divrei Hayayamim while Hezekiah ubeit dino manipulated it in Melachim and Shmuel. They did not worry about chronology except as it affected Halacha e.g. Shemita and yovel. They made special provisions to make sure that was not affected. I therefore propose that they learned from Moshe who did the same with the Torah chronology.

It is therefore important to figure out why this manipulation was necessary at the time and what purpose it had as a teaching or other purpose. your approach is therefore the correct Mahalach.

The article is a little lengthy and not well edited but it is worth reading. It is arduous but if you do it with the sources it is Me'irat Einayim. if you don't have it I acn email it to you . email me for the latter.

J said...

WIDR, I don't believe you can easily get out of "VaYoled" not implying father-son. That is quite a stretch. Especially when followed by "and he lived 'y' number of years after giving birth to 'z'.

To the poster who quoted someone saying: "If you can't trust them when they are telling you history, then what can you trust them about" this is a bit of circular logic, IMHO.

Besides, if you take it as a given that the historical facts where NOT part of the mesora of Torah She'Ba'al Peh, and the legends in the Agadah are not part of the mesora of Torah She'Ba'al Peh, you solve your problem without losing your Emunas Chachamim.

That is the danger of claiming too much. You can undermine your faith in the entire matter! "Tafasta MeRooba, Loh Tahfasta"

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

J, obviously I am with you re: the attitude we should have toward the Mesora, and the necessity of differentiating between those aspects which are from Sinai, and those which are not.

In terms of "vayoled", there are at least four points in favor of my approach:

1) There are several places in Tanach where it is used in the way I am suggesting.

2) It would be a bizarre coincidence to find the "ten generations" pattern in Tanach in 3 places, and for them all to involve (a) a chronology problem and (b)the emergence of a qualitatively new stage of spiritual history, and for them to be literal.

3) If there were a hundred generations or more between these individuals, would we really expect the Torah to list all of them? Is the Torah an exhaustive account of prehistory, or a book of the covenant between us and Hashem which is designed to teach us ideas and mitsvot? It is reasonable that it might be a compression, even prima facie.

4) We have to interpret the Torah in terms of our knowledge of empirical reality, and dating both Adam and the Flood earlier would accomplish this.

Baruch Horowitz said...

"If you can't trust them when they are telling you history, then what can you trust them about" this is a bit of circular logic, IMHO."

What Aharonson was saying, I think, is that saying chazal erred in history is a breach of Emunas Chachamim either in this case, or in the entire concept. This is true if a person reading chazal's statement believes that Chazal themselves believed it was true. Once someone is untrustworthy in one area, he loses it everywhere. If, however, one is convinced that they never intended it literally, then that would be different.

His second, more serious point was to respond to a writer whose explanation of the period in question, snapped the chain of the mesorah.

"That is the danger of claiming too much. You can undermine your faith in the entire matter! "Tafasta MeRooba, Loh Tahfasta""

I strongly agree, but people disagree where to draw the line as far as what was part of the Mesorah. If one holds that something crossed the line, then Tafasta MeRooba, Loh Tahfasta obviously doesn't apply.

People have different "bottom lines". I often argue Tafasta MeRooba, Loh Tahfasta for being accurate and balanced in writing Gedolim biographies.

The point, is, that a person has a finite capacity for emunah, and we shouldn't strech it. Were I convinced, that historical statements were to be understood like you said, I would indeed agree with this concern.

Anonymous said...

RJM,

1) You haven't addressed the question of why, according to your theory, the Torah implies clearly that this was literally a father/son relationship. Gen. 11:11, for example, says "And Shem lived five hundred years after begetting Arpachshad..."

2) This parsha is clearly foreshadowing Canaan (Gen. 9:22; 10:18-19). According to the geologists the flood occured around 5600 BCE. Would it be strange to find the beginnings of Canaan that early (so too the Girgashite, Hittite, Amorite, Jerubsite etc.)? Same question with Bavel, Ashur, Nineveh. In other words, based on our limited knowledge of ancient history, when do these nations or at least the founders of these nations come into existence?

3) Why is the purpose of the "Table of Nations"?

Anonymous said...

4) How do you count 10 generations - including the first person on the list (Adam, Noach, Perez) and/or the last person on the list (Noach, Avraham, David)? The geneology from Adam to Noach counts counts Adam and Noach to equal ten (so too from Perez and David). The genology from Noach to Avraham either doesn't count Noach or doesn't count Avraham.

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Jennifervfiw said...

The Ralbag agrees with the Rambam in MN, and offers an intriguing explanation for why these individuals were blessed with such long lifespans. He maintains that this was necessary so that the basic technological arts needed for civilization to progress could be developed. The trial-and-error process through which these vital crafts came to be would have been very drawn out and ardous. Human beings in prehistory knew basically NOTHING about the world they lived in. They would have been unaware of things we take completely for granted, such as the whole concept of hunting/cooking food,weaving clothing, constructing homes, maintaining proper diet (at least through avoiding poisonous berries and the like), and farming. According to Ralbag, the people with long lives were the "Thomas Edisons" or "Eli Whitneys" of their day who contributed to the discovery and refinement of agricultural methods, the manufacture of clothing, etc., etc.

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