tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post7117516776859677558..comments2024-03-19T12:13:34.854-04:00Comments on Yeshivat Deah VeHaskel: Why Women's Ritual Participation is Not The AnswerRabbi Joshua Maroofhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-15625967453155844892022-06-29T19:50:41.246-04:002022-06-29T19:50:41.246-04:00content Gucci Dolabuy Full Report dolabuy.ru w... content <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/locky-c-157_158_324/louis-vuitton-shop-monogram-2020-m44653-locky-bb-milky-white-bag-p-2904.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>Gucci Dolabuy</strong></a> Full Report <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/g-wallets-c-157_168_204/replica-647942-disney-x-gucci-donald-duck-card-case-p-2621.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>dolabuy.ru</strong></a> why not try these out <a href="https://www.dolabuy.ru/neonoe-c-157_158_163/luxury-louis-vuitton-replica-n%C3%A9ono%C3%A9-bb-epi-leather-m53610-p-976.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>replica dolabuy</strong></a>thertihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17870703608262785419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-36672416391832741542013-03-25T19:21:10.491-04:002013-03-25T19:21:10.491-04:00Aw, this was an incredibly nice post. 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The ritual performances in shul are not necessarily the central part of observance. However, they are central to a spiritual connection to G-d. Similar to the sacrifices, the performance of the various rituals in the service are one of the main methods that we use to connect spiritually and create a community. I think that the role of women in the performance of ritual in as much as it enables them to forge a spiritual connection to G-d and the Community.Goodsonhvhghttp://podcast.suncoastcc.qld.edu.au/groups/kenbowden/wiki/b0f8a/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-34361712831705273662012-10-18T09:54:48.413-04:002012-10-18T09:54:48.413-04:00On the whole, I think you make some very good poin...On the whole, I think you make some very good points. The ritual performances in shul are not necessarily the central part of observance. However, they are central to a spiritual connection to G-d. Similar to the sacrifices, the performance of the various rituals in the service are one of the main methods that we use to connect spiritually and create a community. I think that the role of women in the performance of ritual in as much as it enables them to forge a spiritual connection to G-d and the Community. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-37306421687446590942012-10-18T01:27:08.659-04:002012-10-18T01:27:08.659-04:00I'm in agreement with Channie. While I wasn...I'm in agreement with Channie. While I wasn't at the Torah reading in question, I can only imagine the spiritual high that would come from receiving an aliyah. From leyning from the Torah myself (I don't know how but would love to learn). Or from leading part of davening. I do hear your point, Rabbi Maroof, that we should be seeking more personal ways to come close to Gd. But why not normalize women's participation? Energize *this* generation of women and girls with the spiritual highs of increased public service in the shul. Then, after the normalization, people can be educated to seek a more personal commitment of service to Gd. Telling women "oh this? this isn't what it's all about anyway" isn't going to stop me or my daughter from wanting our own spiritual high. elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-64122408441342485132012-10-18T01:18:30.877-04:002012-10-18T01:18:30.877-04:00Shalom Rabbi Maroof,
To take your train of though...Shalom Rabbi Maroof,<br /><br />To take your train of thought further, you seem to be saying that you find there to be too many resources expended on shul services anyway, and too much communal focus. <br /><br />If I understand that correctly, then it is quite a profound statement. <br /><br />Should shuls reconsider their financial and organization commitment to public shul services, looking instead to assure a minimal quality of services (i.e. no elaborate cantor, ba'al koreh, decorum), limit attendence (there are decisor who did not find attending minyan to be halchically required), and instead focus on study and chesed etc?Reuven C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09508816096370630331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-16705488764708354782012-10-17T10:41:18.878-04:002012-10-17T10:41:18.878-04:00is the rabbi suggesting that halacha never changes...is the rabbi suggesting that halacha never changes? that the way do things never change?!?!?<br /><br />thats absurd. of course it changes. in fact, the only reason orthodox judaism is still moderately relevant today is because of changes that strong leaders made over the years.<br /><br />and here, in this case, i think many are actually arguing to include women WITHIN THE CONFINES OF HALACHA!!!!<br /><br />i am just going to sit back and laugh at "men" who haggle and debate over whether women can or should do whatever the heck they want in this day and age.<br /><br />in 100-200 years, your brand of judaism will be long gone. cant stick your feet in the mud and not expect the world to pass you bybenjyrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-59175547876499705992012-10-17T06:40:33.132-04:002012-10-17T06:40:33.132-04:00As I alluded to in my post, were we to be living i...<i>As I alluded to in my post, were we to be living in the times of the Bet Hamiqdash, there would no doubt be similar movements to enfranchise non-Kohanim and non-Levites in the very public and prominent Temple service, as Qorah argued they should be. </i><br /><br />Weren't the ma'amdot a way to give the non-Cohanim and non-Leviim a halachically appropriate role in the public service in the Temple?Mike S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-51474778988078749872012-10-16T16:37:20.506-04:002012-10-16T16:37:20.506-04:00Did Chazal not permit women to perform s'micha...Did Chazal not permit women to perform s'micha on their korbanot to give them "nachat ruach"?<br /><br />Mike S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-86822941040897236342012-10-16T15:50:01.050-04:002012-10-16T15:50:01.050-04:00Hmmm... Let me try this.
Were an archaic version o...Hmmm... Let me try this.<br /><i>Were an archaic version of Rabbi Farber to have lived in the days of the prophets Hosea, Isaiah, or Jeremiah, we can envision the scene: He would have climbed the rooftops or the hilltops (there were no blogs back then) and proclaimed his dream of egalitarian ritual participation in the Bet Hamiqdash, the Holy Temple.</i><br /><br />Were the gedolim of today and the kollelniks at BMG to have lived in the days of the prophets they would not be in the beit midrash all day learning. They would be engaging with all of Am Yisrael - actually being on hilltops and rooftops and not in the daled amos of the beit midrash all day. They would be speaking about the yatom the almana, the shafel ruach, and the poor. They would be speaking mainly about tzedek and and caring for the vulnerable - not what people are wearing (from hats to tights) what the ultimate etrog looks like, and whose is really orthodox. They would be questioning the motivations of those men who are fasting and wearing sackcloth and not doing the above.Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-9775637932815706722012-10-16T15:12:08.253-04:002012-10-16T15:12:08.253-04:00Yes, Channie, I knew it was you...but I still don&...Yes, Channie, I knew it was you...but I still don't think anyone has engaged in any ad homonym argumentation here...criticizing ideas is OK, and we agree to disagree, perhaps even disagree strongly.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-80727045631315565642012-10-16T15:09:18.603-04:002012-10-16T15:09:18.603-04:00I don't think we've met, but appreciate th...I don't think we've met, but appreciate the comment.CNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14517095779666804935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-82544058920669084802012-10-16T15:08:02.290-04:002012-10-16T15:08:02.290-04:00This is channie, the "unknown" thing was...This is channie, the "unknown" thing was a mistake - I am posting from my phone & not sure how to change that. Sorry. But... anonymous bloggers are also people, and comparing someone to Korah, especially when you don't really mean it, is insulting (although not public, I guess.)CNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14517095779666804935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-55837864866262376452012-10-16T14:57:05.228-04:002012-10-16T14:57:05.228-04:00Unknown:
Until now, I thought I was pretty safe f...Unknown:<br /><br />Until now, I thought I was pretty safe from guessing the real identity of your alias and consequently from being in violation of 'malbin pene chaveiro' and 'motzi shem ra' by exchanging arguments with an anonymous blogger named 'unknown'. But once you dropped that Monte Python reference, I'm not so sure. :-)<br /><br />I will be more careful from now on.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14085599205300856673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-32957646279586661712012-10-16T14:35:47.079-04:002012-10-16T14:35:47.079-04:00How can someone "unknown" be embarrassed...How can someone "unknown" be embarrassed or shamed? Nobody is attacking anyone personally here. We are discussing our ideas and variant approaches to the question of women's role in Judaism. Harsh criticism was registered against my view as well, and I realize that it comes with the territory. If we remain civil and respectful in our discourse, no harm should be done. Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-49090045403982219302012-10-16T14:29:42.598-04:002012-10-16T14:29:42.598-04:00Ah, Jacob the old Korah thing. Since Korah said &q...Ah, Jacob the old Korah thing. Since Korah said "fairness" to overthrow Moses, than anyone who says fairness - like the Torah for instance (צדק צדק תרדף) must also be Korah, even if they aren't advocating anything forbidden according to halakha (keep in mind this was sanctioned by the shul rabbi). This is just rhetoric, I am sure you don't even believe, just couldn't resist the dig, I guess. Anyway, Monty Python did a skit on this kind of "logic" once (Professor of Logic), so I will leave it in their expert hands. <br /><br />As my point has already been made, I will not belabor it - but here is a new point. Obviously we disagree, that is fine. However, there is a difference between our approaches. I am simply stating my view, you are attacking me and others. Actually, by calling me Korah - as silly as that was - you have embarrassed me (or tried to at any rate) which, if you are not aware, is an issur de-oraitta of malbin pnei haveiro be-rabbim (a yehareig ve-al ya'avor according to some), not to mention motzai shem ra for equating me with Korah. And you did this for what reason? Simply to defend your point that what I did was not assur but not a great idea in your opinion? Seems a rather trite reason to do two major issurei Torah. CNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14517095779666804935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-28511253302578589662012-10-16T14:02:19.304-04:002012-10-16T14:02:19.304-04:00As I alluded to in my post, were we to be living i...As I alluded to in my post, were we to be living in the times of the Bet Hamiqdash, there would no doubt be similar movements to enfranchise non-Kohanim and non-Levites in the very public and prominent Temple service, as Qorah argued they should be. Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-78130856389493468002012-10-16T13:58:45.644-04:002012-10-16T13:58:45.644-04:00Fairness is also a Torah value.
Unknown:
When yo...<i>Fairness is also a Torah value.</i><br /><br />Unknown:<br /><br />When you strip it all away, isn't that all what it comes down to? A deep resentment on the part of the participants that they are being denied a ritual that another class of people are a regular part of?<br /><br />"Fairness is also a Torah value." Hmmm. Where have I heard that argument before? -----<br /><br />רב לכם כי כל העדה כולם קדושים ובתוכם ה ומדוע תתנשאו על קהל הJacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14085599205300856673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-65983538177489114192012-10-16T13:48:57.630-04:002012-10-16T13:48:57.630-04:00I don't think anyone is arguing that what the ...I don't think anyone is arguing that what the women in ATL did was in violation of halakha. Nor does anyone, to my knowledge, think that it is improper for women to learn to "layn" (sic). I teach both the boys and girls in this community, including my daughter, how to read Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim properly with their cantillation. The question is whether, for men OR women, the emphasis on public ritual is a wise one. Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33081113.post-67855408083496557682012-10-16T13:43:57.779-04:002012-10-16T13:43:57.779-04:00"ours is a religion of reason rather than a r..."ours is a religion of reason rather than a religion of ritual"<br /><br />Jacob, I have heard this one before, and I do not agree - but this is beside the point. My point is simply this, we wanted to read from the Torah scroll (without berakhot) because we spent months learning the layning and this seemed like a great way to celebrate Simhat Torah. It is not assur - if anything it is part of the mitzvah of Talmud Torah - it certainly is no less a mitzvah than dancing for an hour or having every single male in the shul have umpteen aliyot (which is certainly not a mitzvah either, might even be a problem according to some). So we did it, it was very moving, felt affirming of our identities as Torah observant women. My point is that it was a positive experience that in no way violated halakha so there is little reason I can see for people to oppose this. The attempt to hold us back from our muttar yet not halakhically mandated expression of ahavat ha-Torah while allowing the men to do a number of their own maybe-muttar but not halakhically mandated expressions of ahavat ha-Torah strikes me as nothing more than an abuse of male power and is unjust. Fairness is also a Torah value. CNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14517095779666804935noreply@blogger.com